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 Running Rigging to Cockpit
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Roamer
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/10/2019 :  08:33:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings!

I'm working on a 1984 C25 without the poptop. I will always be sailing single-handed. I want to run all running rigging to the top of the cabin. I currently have a winch on the mast, which I will move to the cabin top. I will install a mast plate under the mast step, deck organizers to route the lines around the sliding companionway hatch, and rope clutches forward of the winch.

I think the following lines need to be led aft:
1. Main halyard
2. Jib halyard
3. jib downhaul (no furler)
4. Vang
5. Topping lift
6. Reef #1
7. Reef #2

I believe that only the main halyard and the 2 reefs will need the winch. Comments? Suggestions? Equipment brands? Common sequence for the lines to be arranged? Which side of the hatch?

Thx for your help! Roamer

fadeaway: 1984 TR/FK Trad

keats
Navigator

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USA
169 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2019 :  10:10:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Regarding cabintop winch, whichever side you put it on, if you want to winch something on the other side the existing jib sheet winches are serviceable for that.

On the jib downhaul, are you just going to pull down the head of the sail or are you going to reach out and pull in the clew as well?

I've been thinking of adding this and want to pull the whole sail in to keep it out of the water.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA
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Peregrine
Admiral

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815 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2019 :  10:23:02  Show Profile  Visit Peregrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
All the lines on Peregrine are run to the cockpit. It means I can raise or douse the main and reef without leaving th cockpit.
I have a plate under the mast that has holes for blocks


then the lines run out to "organizers"

then turn back to triple clutches on both sides

I only have one reef point so...
On port I have the topping lift, reef line and main halyard. There is a rarely used winch behind these clutches. This set up means the reefing is all done from one side at one place.
On starboard I have the spin halyard and main out-haul. Still a triple but ones not needed on Peregrine.
Sorry no picture of my set up. Hope this helps.


John Gisondi
Peregrine
#4762


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Edited by - Peregrine on 04/10/2019 10:24:10
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Peregrine
Admiral

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815 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2019 :  10:29:33  Show Profile  Visit Peregrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This not my set up but should give you the general idea.



John Gisondi
Peregrine
#4762


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Roamer
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2019 :  13:36:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tim, Re: jib downhaul- I plan to attach the downhaul line in the jib halyard shackle along side the jib head. I think that if you get head to wind the jib should fall on deck and be restrained by the lifeline stanchions. then put a little tension on the jib sheet. This should keep it on deck until you get to the dock. This works on the boat I'm moving up from, a San Juan 21.

fadeaway: 1984 TR/FK Trad
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trbagpiper
1st Mate

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USA
32 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2019 :  13:58:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's a link that I followed when I set up mine. Not much missing.

https://panza.smugmug.com/MYSAILBOAT/The-Boat-Renovation/Mast-Modifications/i-NvgNhxw

Jim Ventimiglia
Board of Governors
Toms River Yacht Club
'78 Cat 25 #945 SK/SR "Pipe Dream"
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keats
Navigator

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USA
169 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2019 :  15:12:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Roamer, I think I've been leaning in that direction. Sounds simple and easy. I have enough trouble with my big 150 genoa catching on things when I tack and I don't want to add to that.
Some tension on the sheet should keep it on the deck for sure.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA
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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1774 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2019 :  21:57:43  Show Profile  Visit Leon Sisson's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Roamer,

My Catalina 25 has a poptop, but for what it's worth, here's how I rigged my mainsail controls to the cockpit.



The line clutches are, from right to left, main halyard, first reef, second reef. The cam cleats are, from left to right, vang, luff tension, topping lift.

Mainsail foot tension is controlled by an 8:1 outhaul leading to a pivoting cam cleat hanging from the boom. Having a sliding gooseneck complicates adjusting some of the boom-mounted control lines.

There are three line clutches on the port cabin top: jib halyard, spinnaker halyard, and pole topping lift. There is a winch on the port cabin top aft of the clutches for tightening headsail luff with the halyard.

I left space aft of the stbd clutches for a winch, but haven't gotten around to installing one there yet.

The dowsing line for hanked on headsails runs aft along the post lifeline stanchions to near the port primary winch. I attach the headsail dowsing line one or two hanks below the head of the sail. Attaching it directly to the halyard caused the head of the sail to fold over, binding the top hank on the forestay.


ó Leon Sisson

ó Leon Sisson
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8521 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2019 :  07:33:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was about to suggest the same thing for the dousing line--attaching it at a hank--for the same reason, which I experienced on a different boat. I also ran the (thin) line through one or two lower hanks to keep it from slapping on the sail.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-USCG-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1774 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2019 :  19:21:26  Show Profile  Visit Leon Sisson's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Re: "I also ran the dousing line through one or two lower hanks to keep it from slapping on the sail."

As I'm hanking on a headsail, I weave the dousing line between the forestay and luff, crossing over every two hanks. Crossing over every third hank might be better.

ó Leon Sisson
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8521 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2019 :  06:30:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I switched to roller furling/reefing. A total life-changer!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-USCG-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2019 :  16:51:01  Show Profile  Visit Lee Panza's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by trbagpiper

Here's a link that I followed when I set up mine. Not much missing.

https://panza.smugmug.com/MYSAILBOAT/The-Boat-Renovation/Mast-Modifications/i-NvgNhxw



Jim, I'm glad you found that material in my Smugmug gallery helpful.

I want to point out something important, illustrated in the last three images in that gallery. To anchor the bottom end of the vang I had attached a SS strap hounds unit near the bottom of the mast spar. Salt and aluminum corrosion products had built up between the SS and the aluminum, and eventually that hounds unit failed. I replaced it, as well as another hounds unit for my boom downhaul, with SS bails. Here is the last image in that gallery (I just added it today). Note the significant surface damage to the aluminum spar.

When you invest the time (and $) to run the control lines to the cockpit, this is another improvement you should consider installing.





The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8521 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2019 :  19:35:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, at last, I think my work here is done. Since Leon and Steve are still on watch (having preceded me here, and I assume Bill Holcomb is still watching), I'm going below.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-USCG-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/13/2019 19:38:23
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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1774 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2019 :  18:51:33  Show Profile  Visit Leon Sisson's Homepage  Reply with Quote
bjoye,

That is a very well thought out and tidy control lines setup! Thank you for posting such clear photos.

How did you achieve your 8:1 outhaul ratio? 4X2:1? 2x2x2:1?

I used a 2:1 wire around a wire block in the outhaul car, a wire cheek block far back on the boom, entering the extrusion wall via a slot between SS lined fairleads, then a cascade of 2:1 lines and bullet blocks inside the boom. The tail emerges around a ball bearing exit block under the boom just aft of the gooseneck. (Providing possible future option of leading aft on deck.) From there, it runs externally under the boom about 4 ft aft to a "head knocker" pivoting turning block and cam cleat assembly. The long, ball-end tail hanging down is annoying. I may try reconfiguring it next time I'm updating that boat.

ó Leon Sisson
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Peregrine
Admiral

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815 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2019 :  13:00:12  Show Profile  Visit Peregrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wow!
All I did was attach the vang upside down so the spring cleat on the block that is normally at base of the mast is at the boom and the line can be reached from the cockpit.
No muss no fuss.


John Gisondi
Peregrine
#4762


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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8521 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2019 :  20:38:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Peregrine

...No muss no fuss.
...and no label required.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-USCG-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/16/2019 20:40:19
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Peregrine
Admiral

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815 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2019 :  06:22:52  Show Profile  Visit Peregrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I finally found a much earlier post with photos of my set up. Here are analogue photos of the starboard side.




The difference is on the port side I ave a deck mounted winch behind the clutches. On port I have main halyard, reefing line and topping lift.
On starboard I have main out haul and spin halyard.
I can reef from the cockpit all on the port side and do it under one minute.
Well worth it.
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/tech/tech25/tt008.asp


John Gisondi
Peregrine
#4762


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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8521 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2019 :  15:20:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Leon's and Bjoye's setups (I love Leon's teak bridges!) illustrate one consideration in dealing with a lot of lines: Rope clutches are useful for lines that are under a lot of tension, such as halyards, but they're not necessary for low-load lines like a dousing line. Cam cleats with fair leads on top do just as good a job for the latter to keep some tension on them and keep them in place when not tensioned. But for a halyard that will be tensioned with a winch, a cam cleat can grip it so hard that it won't release, which can even damage the core of the line. Since you are proposing 7 or more lines led aft, at least some don't need clutches--good news since space is limited. (The organizer block sets can be stacked.)

(And I'll admit that I would use Starboard to make the bridges. )

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-USCG-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/26/2019 15:21:50
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DirkLivingston
Deckhand

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USA
1 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2020 :  10:26:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leon Sisson

Roamer,

My Catalina 25 has a poptop, but for what it's worth, here's how I rigged my mainsail controls to the cockpit.






I love what you have done with that brown structure (the bridge?) ... how is that one constructed? Would High-density PolyEthylene suffice to construct that? Is it supported by a plate underneath? Bolts all the way through?

Edited by - DirkLivingston on 10/19/2020 11:08:12
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5448 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2020 :  11:57:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Roamer


I believe that only the main halyard and the 2 reefs will need the winch.


The jib halyard definitely needs a winch to enable you to tension the luff in stronger winds. The main halyard also needs a winch. You can either tension the luff of the mainsail by pulling down on the mainsail downhaul, or by pulling up on the main halyard. Since you'll be singlehanding, you won't want to leave the cockpit to adjust the downhaul, so the better choice is to tension the mainsail luff using the main halyard.

Whether you realistically need two reefs depends on how and where you intend to sail the boat. If you intend to sail in big winds on a big lake or bay or ocean, then you might need two reefs, but a C25 is a lake sailer and coastal cruiser, if you watch the weather carefully. It isn't a boat that you should be sailing in big winds on big bodies of water with big waves. If you will likely only sail on small bodies of water in winds below about 25 kts, then a single reef will do. Most of us take our sails down when the windspeed exceeds about 25 kts, and motor to our marina until the wind eases up. I race my Cal 25 on the Chesapeake Bay, and race committees frequently postpone races for our size boats if the wind is over 25-30 kts. I only have a single reef on my Cal 25. It is rigged for two-line reefing, which I prefer, instead of single line reefing. Bigger boats can handle those conditions better, but smaller boats take a terrible beating and things begin to break.

Some people like jib downhauls, but I never saw a need. I bring the boat head-to-wind to lower the jib, and drop it on the foredeck. I put the boat on an easy close reach (not closehauled), set a tiller tamer type device to hold that course, and go forward and loosely roll up the sail and bungee it down. As dotage nears (or possibly has already arrived) I might see the need to rig a downhaul.

I see myself as a balls-to-the walls kind of sailor, but good seamanship dictates that you always reduce or strike your sails before the conditions become dangerous. If you do that, then you can usually make your way to the bow in safety.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("FahrvergnŁgen")
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 10/15/2020 10:12:00
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Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2020 :  23:00:49  Show Profile  Visit Lee Panza's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Regarding multiple reef points on a mainsail, Iíd like to offer another point of view.

The question of reefing is usually looked at from the perspective of whatís prudent or even necessary. But thereís another perspective that we probably all consider now and then: what allows us to sail comfortably.

Iíll confess that Iím unlikely to reef my main until conditions are well past the point at which it might be considered prudent. I enjoy the thrill of sailing over-powered, and on San Francisco Bay in the summertime thatís a condition thatís easy to come by.

But when Iím taking non-sailing friends out itís an entirely different situation, and it calls for a much more conservative set-up. I want like them to enjoy themselves, and hanging-on for dear life probably isnít very enjoyable for them. Go figure.

So, when Iíve got friends aboard, I want to throttle-back on the heeling moment and Iím willing to forego some driving effort. Thatís when itís nice to be able to tuck a second reef and just enjoy sharing sailing under less stress-inducing conditions.

So, is this a good reason for an owner to pay their sailmaker to put in a second reef? I think so.

I think many of our forum members arenít racers, and many arenít interested in pushing themselves or their boats toward their limits, so having this option makes sense. A second reef adds a level of control, and control should be defined by more than just necessity.



The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)
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