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 Planning on lowering the mast in the near future..
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LSM
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/30/2020 :  16:16:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I plan on lowering the mast in the near future to replace lights and the windex. I have verified I have almost everything I need to do this task. Well, sort of. Still cannot find the webbing strap that goes around the mast. I have what I believe is the raising equipment for the winch, except it does not match any of the documentation that is in the manual. My trailer does not have any of the accommodations that are in the illustrations. It is the original trailer.

The raising system based on what I can determine would fit in the tab the Jib furler is attached to. The boat is hull 140 so, I am hoping the raising and lowering system has been refined after mine was built.

Has anyone seen this setup and are my predictions on how this would be assembled correct? I really don't want to set this up and have the whole thing fail halfway down and be without a mast.

Hopefully the photos show up.... Nope... any suggestions on what I am doing wrong would be appreciated.

Here are some photos of the hardware:
The whole assembly:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iGVkBkWj3CbLW6qFA

Where I think it goes into the Jib tab:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1j9Ly2mVcRCk972z9

It has lines and blocks on both sides and not sure where these attach to. You can see them in the first photo complete:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/K1wWkEuj69WZNMcw9

95 C250WB #140 Serindipity
Calgary, AB

Edited by - LSM on 05/30/2020 16:20:46

doublereefed
Navigator

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151 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2020 :  08:37:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was waiting for someone with better/exact knowledge to reply, but having raised/lowered many times I have a few thoughts. I have the trailer mod that provides a very tall mast to connect the winch to the straps. Without that, and based on MacGregor 26 experience in previous life, you will need a gin pole rather than just connecting the lifting tackle to the jib tab on the forepeak. That may be what you are describing, but just make sure. Essentially, you will have that gin pole (I think I see it in one of your photos?) inserted into the mast base (there should be a hole), and sticking straight up, perpendicular to the deck. The temporary baby stays are a very nice feature on the C250... keeps things lined up nicely. Check out this page that shows the process for a Mac 26S. This type of setup will work for you. Check and double check, be safe... don't let anyone stand under the mast while raising in case it all lets go. I usually lift the mast as high as I can out of the crutch (with someone else on the trailer winch) and then go up on the foredeck to get out of the way. Good luck!

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-2.html

'95 C250 WB #61
Midway, UT
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LSM
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2020 :  12:28:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Doublereefef, thanks for the link.

Apparently, the setup that I have and possibly the trailer is not original. I will have to fabricate a similar system that resembles the factory setup. I will look at the MacGregor page more closely and see if the pole system is remotely similar and fits where suggested. The cables attached to the pole makes sense that they would be used to stabilize the Gin pole part for the raising. I imagine these would attach to the stanchions where the baby stays are connected. When I do try to lower and step the mast the first time, I will use the yard crane to provide a safety back up just in case all goes "south".

95 C250WB #140 Serindipity
Calgary, AB
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kjk
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2020 :  17:57:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've seen this movie before and Rick had a brilliant solution because he, like me, did not have a trailer assembly...if you look in the archives you will find a lot of discussion on this topic. My eventual solution was to attach a metal pole to the mast using a Bimini fittings and attaching a winch to the pole as well. Since I didn't have the mast guidance shrouds, I used winch straps looped through the holes where they went. It works perfectly but I'm terrified every time I have to do it...

Kevin J. Kiely
Rockport, MA
1999WK
Hull # 407
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4700 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2020 :  20:25:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While not as elegant as the 250 Gin Pole method with the trailer cradle,I like my homemade A-frame method with two 10 ft 2x3s attached to the forestay and the chainplates, and hoist the mast using the Mainsheet.

Iíve done it with help from another sailor in the yard and also solo on the dock and itís always very predictable. I built a 6 ft tall cradle to catch the mast on the way down. The cradle is lashed firmly aft to my stern pulpit, so the mast does not want to pivot very much once it goes down.

Once down, I strap the forestay and furler to a 1x3 board lashed to the mast and walk the whole thing forward to rest between the bow pulpit, the cabin top (with a few wooden block spacers) and the stern pulpit.

The biggest problem for me is managing all the shrouds, lines, halyards and lashing everything along the mast to prevent snags and tangles.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain ó Milford, CT
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waterbaby
Navigator

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USA
165 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2021 :  07:17:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi LSM,
I really appreciated your post, for some reason I have never been able to fully understand the gin pole meathod of raising and lowering a mst until I read your post about it.

I've got a Catalina 25 tall rig and in a conversation with tech support about how to raise and lower our mast, they recommended that I seek a 250 owner and look at their trailor assembly. Do you have pictures of the trailor assembly?

I would really appreciate any info you could provide about it.

Thanks, Karen

1986 TR/SK #5250 Sunshine
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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1138 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2021 :  10:44:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

This will perhaps clarify the use of a gin pole when raising or lowering the mast. One advantage of the gin pole is that the mast can be raised or lowered anywhere while on the water or away from the trailer. Later hull numbers use a different system. While on our "one year long around the continent 17.000 mile (25000km) trip/cruise", we used this system many times

BTW we really like the "cut in half", gin pole for out-of-the-way storage in the bottom of the port side cabin locker next to the two sections of the mast carrier taking up hardly any room


The cut-in-half and SS 12" sleeved gin-pole 98" long is inserted in the base of the mast, attached to the jib-halyard and block-and-tackle to the eye located in the anchor locker. Note: Baby stays must be attached to mast and stanchions to keep the mast in column. Make doubly sure the jib halyard is secured


The fore stay, furler drum and foil are connected to the tip of the gin-pole during the mast raising procedure for final connecting to the bow stem
We are fabrication a special "drum lifting device", to easier accommodate the insertion of the pin


Henk & Johanna
Mariah '96 C250WB #191
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wm36
1st Mate

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USA
48 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2021 :  16:05:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like that idea of tieing the furler drum to the end of the gin pole. We usually just let the drum drag across the deck (wrapped in a heavy towel of course), but your idea would work better. I will try that this spring!

Wayne & Lynn
Hillsboro OR
1995 C250 WB #151
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4700 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2021 :  20:10:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When Iíve taken my mast down a few times in the past, I used the mainsheet with an A-frame rather than a gin pole, but the principle was the same. I connected the forestay (with furler drum attached) as my main attachment point and then attached the jib halyard to the assembly as a backup - - just in case there was a problem with the forestay coming loose.

This approach also kept the heavy, easily damaged, furler foil aligned and secure during the process. Once the mast was nearly down, I secured the furler foil and drum to a 10ft-long 1x3 that I lashed in line with the mast.

This prevented the furler from getting away from me and stressing the foil when I moved the mast forward or back or when I was working on it.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain ó Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 03/31/2021 05:36:19
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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1138 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2021 :  13:59:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Just one more small mast raising detail. It seems, after the mast is raised even with enough slack on the fore stay that connecting the clevis fitting to the bow stem using a clevis pin is almost impossible. The furler drum and foil sag down just enough to make it difficult to insert the pin. Using a flat head screwdriver to lift the drum will work but it often slips. By using a simple slotted device as shown in the photo, made out of anything, will enable you to lift the drum up enough to easily insert the clevis pin and secure the fore stay. Insert the split pin and voila...




Henk & Johanna
Mariah '96 C250WB #191
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wm36
1st Mate

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USA
48 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2021 :  19:44:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can't count the number of bad words I have (nearly) said while trying to insert that clevis pin... We are getting better at it but it is still a trying task. We usually raise/lower the mast three times each season if we trailer to the San Juans in July so we get lots of practice.

Wayne & Lynn
Hillsboro OR
1995 C250 WB #151
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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1138 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2021 :  16:52:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A couple more things...
To make doubly sure nothing unforeseen will happen and eliminate bad words Wayne during the mast raising procedure, particularly when the mast is in the upright position but just before connecting the clevis and pin to the bow stem and secured with a split-pin, we keep tension on the spinnaker halyard forward until the fore-stay and mast are secured.

To make it easier to tension the shrouds with the turn-buckles we use a short piece of a paint stir-stick which does not harm the buckle...

Port and starboard shroud turnbuckles are tension-ed by equal turns on both sides while the split back stay turnbuckle is tightened to take the sag out of the fore-stay/furler. Perhaps we should use a gauge but we do this by feel

To avoid bending the T bolt stems of the turnbuckles, as per Arlyn Steward, we use a large cable tie to keep them in an upright position


Henk & Johanna
Mariah '96 C250WB #191

Edited by - zeil on 04/02/2021 09:23:45
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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1138 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2021 :  10:47:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The gin pole and mast connection on our 1996, #191 is made with a screw on the back of the mast holding a 1/2" o/d stub inside the mast which fits inside the end of the inserted gin pole.

Catalina made different versions of the same function


The bottom screw is attached to a stub inside the mast which fits and holds the end of the inserted gin pole. Above that is the attachment for the boom vang

Wayne: it seems there is enough clearance to use pan-head bolts for mounting brackets



Henk & Johanna
Mariah '96 C250WB #191

Edited by - zeil on 04/02/2021 11:28:41
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LSM
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2021 :  07:59:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by waterbaby

Hi LSM,
I really appreciated your post, for some reason I have never been able to fully understand the gin pole meathod of raising and lowering a mst until I read your post about it.

I've got a Catalina 25 tall rig and in a conversation with tech support about how to raise and lower our mast, they recommended that I seek a 250 owner and look at their trailor assembly. Do you have pictures of the trailor assembly?

I would really appreciate any info you could provide about it.

Thanks, Karen


Hi Karen,

This is what should be in place for, I think later '95 and newer trailers. It appears mine is one of the original designs and does not have this system.

This is another C250 where I have my boat. This has the mast raising system.

This is my trailer. Not the same setup.

95 C250WB #140 Serindipity
Calgary, AB

Edited by - LSM on 04/06/2021 08:00:27
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RPLieser
1st Mate

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USA
46 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2021 :  10:35:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I solved the forestay/backstay issue using this device from Catalina Direct, #E1880 Quick Release Lever, replacing the backstay turnbuckle. This also eliminates the need for adjusting at each launch.





Patrick Lieser
C250WB #312
Knot My Fault II
Morro Bay, CA
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5540 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2021 :  11:17:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Patrick, in the lower right-hand corner of your photo I see a quick-release pin. I have one of those on my Cal 25 in a non-critical location. One day I found it lying on the deck. I replaced it with a new one and, after about a year, I found it lying on the deck. Consequently, I don't trust them to use for any critical purpose, such as holding up the mast.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("FahrvergnŁgen")
Past Commodore
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RPLieser
1st Mate

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USA
46 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2021 :  16:26:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steve... good point, but this item has been used on the C25 forestays for quite awhile, and in my six years of use on my C250, it's been invaluable. Additionally, there is a bit of pressure on the pin which requires a gentle push on the lever to release.

Patrick Lieser
C250WB #312
Knot My Fault II
Morro Bay, CA
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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2253 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2021 :  16:44:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are many ways to deal with these things. To loosen the backstay, I would lash the boom vang to the split at the top and the port U-bolt at the bottom. It had enough purchase to de-tension the port half and release the shackle without having to readjust.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)
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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1138 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2021 :  17:10:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Thanks Steve we'll keep an eye on the pin... it's used often to take down our main sheet while docked


Henk & Johanna
Mariah '96 C250WB #191
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